Clint Van Zandt - former FBI Criminal Profiler, Hostage Negotiator, and current TV and News Media Crime Analyst

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Amanda Knox: Cold Blooded Killer or Angel Faced Victim

Amanda Knox

The friends, family and other supporters of accused 21-year-old murderer Amanda Knox of Seattle, Washington, will to need wait until at least January 16 of the New Year to find out the fate of the so-called "angel-faced killer." For many, Knox is the believed brutal executioner of her British roommate, 21-year-old language major Meredith Kercher. The murder took place after an alleged, drug-fueled confrontation that involved Knox, her 24-year-old "Harry Potter look-alike" Italian boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, and their believed 21-year old Ivory Coast drug dealer Rudy Guede, in November 2007. Guede has already confessed to his role in this horrific crime. NBC's Dennis Murphy and a diligent NBC Dateline team has followed this case since Kercher's half-naked body was found in her apartment in beautiful Perugia, Italy. When police found her, she lay in a pool of blood, her throat cut with most of her clothes ripped from her body. On Friday, December 5, Dateline presented their updated analysis of the Kercher murder (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28057560/) and reviewed the evidence that Italian prosecutor and investigators believe will link both Knox and Sollecito to the crime scene and the murder of Kercher.

Background

For more on the background on this story, see my article "Murder in ancient Perugia" at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22188940/ and "Brutal murderer or just too sexy for the Cops" at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25371590. As indicated in these articles, Knox was studying abroad and upon arriving in Perugia, found an ad indicating other international students were looking for a roommate. Knox joined Kercher and two other women in a wonderful rental home overlooking the ancient countryside. Perugia was an ideal location for both fun and study, and according to many, Knox was there, like other students, for the fun.

Amanda got a part-time job in a local bar and in a few weeks ran through several new boyfriends before teaming up with Sollecito. Both acknowledge they shared many things together, to include cooking, movies, drugs and sex, again not uncommon for the many young internationals that attended the local college, or just hung around the town piazza, waiting to meet up with other like-minded individuals. Knox's fun and freedom would all change, though, when Kercher's brutalized body was found on the morning of November 2, 2007, this after recovering from a night of bar hopping and nonstop Halloween parties attended by most of the local college community. Kercher had dressed as a female vampire to include fake blood on her body, what some suggest would become an omen of her own terrible fate in less than 24 hours.

Along with Dennis Murphy and the NBC Dateline crew, I was in Perugia shortly after the murder and spent many hours at the crime scene and talking with investigators, to include reviewing the available physical evidence and many of the photos taken by police in their investigation. We also spoke to the local prosecutor and began to understand his case against the three suspects and his belief of the motive for the senseless murder of Kercher.

The Evidence, the Murder

Let's review some of that evidence and its implication to the young American's (and young Italian's) potential guilt or innocence:

There is no doubt that Kercher died a tragic death after she had been physically and sexually assaulted, her throat cut in a manner that resulted in her choking on her own blood, this as she struggled in vain to escape her assailant(s). What is in question, and what the fate of the two remaining suspects rests on is who killed Kercher and why. The Italian prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, will offer his theory or theories suggesting, perhaps, that Knox and Sollecito needed money to pay Guede for drugs. The three believed conspirators then met at the residence shared by Knox and Kercher where they stole $350 Kercher had just obtained from a local ATM to pay for her share of the new month's rent. They were somehow caught or otherwise confronted by Kercher with her death the direct result of this fatal confrontation.

Motive

This initial suggestion for the motive for murder, however, has now been refined to suggest that Sollecito was a fan of violent Japanese manga comics. One such comic entitled "The Last Vampire" was found in his residence. It featured pictures of a naked female vampire whose body had been slashed by a sword (remember how Meredith was dressed the night before for Halloween.) As the theory continues, the three suspects all came to Knox's residence and lay in wait for Kercher to return from a friend's apartment.

Prosecutor Mignini's latest theory continues that upon Meredith's arrival at her apartment, she was forced to participate in a bizarre sex game based upon the manga comic in which Kercher was made to have sex with Guede while she was held down by Sollecito and threatened by Knox, who held a long kitchen knife from Sollecito's apartment to the victim's throat to intimidate her. Although there was no forensic evidence to suggest that Kercher was under the influence, and, thereby, somehow, perhaps, a willing participate in this terrible game that lead to her death, investigators found that she sustained at least 47 different cuts and bruises from the assault on her, to include a number of major and minor cuts on her throat that may be evidence of her assailant's attempts to force her to comply.

Kercher's death was insured by a final killing slice across her throat, one that may have further injured her already fractured hyoid bone, a cut that severed her superior right thyroid artery and the upper air passages in her pharynx, a concluding brutal slash that would silence her desperate cry for help forever. The Italian prosecutor believes that after Kercher's assault and murder, the three suspects all fled the crime scene, with Guede leaving the country and Knox and Sollecito fleeing to his apartment, only to return to the crime scene the next day to complete their attempts to cover up their involvement in the terrible crime.

Upon review, the prosecutor's current theory concerning Kercher's murder appears to be almost too bizarre, too dark and too crazy to be true. Usually murder is not a complicated crime and the motive for murder is equally simple. The comic book inspired one-way sex game and subsequent murder theory offered by the prosecutor seems just too tabloid'istic, more of a bad made-for-TV movie script than one that could creditably account for the death of Kercher. The judges and jury will need to embrace this theory in order to believe that the two young lovers somehow conspired with Guede to kill Kercher.

One Plea to date

Rudy, identified by some as a local drug dealer and knife carrying burglar, requested a speedy trial and has been convicted and sentenced to 30 years for his role in Kercher's death. His story that two other people actually committed the murder and he tried to help Kercher, this after sex, will probably be retold in some form in the upcoming trial, one in which he may be the star witness. Who but he, after all, outside of other witnesses that can state the three suspects knew each other before the murder, can perhaps put Amanda and Raffaele at the crime scene and, at this point, who but Rudy can put the knife in the hand of the killer? But can his statements be trusted? His DNA was found inside of the victim, he confessed to having sex with her (quick and forced though vs. his claim of consensual), his bloody hand print found under the victim's body, and his feces were found in her toilet. There appears little doubt that Rudy was there and had a role in Meredith's murder – why else would he confess? But what deal might he have made with prosecutors to reduce his sentence; a deal that could possibly help to convict two innocent, or two guilty people? He may have made his deal with prosecutors believing that the other two suspects would likely offer him up as the lone killer, deciding that he would not go down alone for this brutal crime.

Linking Physical Evidence

Physical evidence in possession of the prosecution seems to implicate Amanda Knox in the following manner:

Blood found in the bathroom contained the mixed DNA of both Kercher and Knox, perhaps suggesting to investigators that Knox had attempted to wash the victim's blood from her hands after she had been cut while using the knife to kill Kercher. But, as suggested by others, there could be some innocent reason for this blood that has yet to see the light of day in court.

The suspect murder weapon, a knife belonging to Sollecito, was found at his residence. DNA identifiable to Knox was found on its handle and DNA said to be identical to that of Kercher was allegedly found on the tip of the knife's blade. Identical or a close match? - it obviously make a difference and the experts will argue both sides.

Footprints were found in blood at the crime scene that authorities believe were made by Knox.

And then there are the various stories told by Knox to authorities, one in which she indicated that she was at the crime scene at the time of Kercher's murder, suggesting she covered her ears to keep the victim's screams from entering her head. Knox then implicated her employer, 40-year-old Patrick Lumumba, owner of the Le Chic bar, as Kercher's killer. Police would later prove that Lumumba was at his bar at the time of the victim's death, and a subsequent statement by Knox withdrew her allegations against him.

Other stories Knox told concerning the night of the murder and her night with Sollecito are suspicious, with Knox stating they stayed the night at Sollecito's apartment, returning to Knox's apartment the next morning. Inconsistencies were also found in her story concerning their contact with police and their actions after the victim's body was found, contradictions that have caused many, to include investigators, to question Knox's and Sollecito's role in Kercher's death.

And then, of course, is evidence of potential staging of the crime scene (the large rock through the window to, perhaps, make it appear as a burglary) and the attempts at cleaning up the crime scene. Who would attempt to clean up the crime scene? Usually not a burglar who was coming and going as fast as he could vs. someone with access to the scene and reason to clean up their involvement in the crime.

Amanda's Diary

Next there is Knox's rambling, multi-page diary that she kept in jail that may have given police insight into the mind of a murderer, or may simply represent the musings of a young girl whose head was simply filled with romantic ideas, or it may be a journal created with the expressed intent of supporting her declaration of innocence. She initially claimed she was beaten by police, but later backed off of this assertion; she is flippant one minute, depressed another, this while she writes about her life in prison, including attempts by both male interrogators and female cell mates to hit on her. Although very self-centered and self-serving, with little concern indicated for her dead roommate, she is, after all, someone facing a dramatic change that forces her to consider her life and the future implications of her upcoming trial. No matter whether you believe her guilty or innocent, reading her diary could convince you she is an immature, naïve romantic, again totally consistent with her age and life style. Even the many lovers she speaks of and the love letters she indicates she received from admirers may be nothing but the plaintive thoughts of a young woman hoping to cling to the life she knew vs. the current life she was living and the future she feared.

Time of Death

Although the police believe they know the time that Kercher was murdered, this based upon reports from neighbors of what they heard (an "agonizing scream" at 11:30 PM) and what they saw and the body temperature readings taken from the victim's dead body, (such readings were taken 11 hours after her body was found, therefore complicating the examiner's ability to suggest the exact time of her death), when compared with evidence of rigor mortis and the contents of her stomach and evidence of digestion of her last known meal, in this case pizza and vegetables, the establishment of an exact time of death is difficult. All evidence, though, suggests that Kercher died sometime between 8:00 PM that night and 1 AM the following morning.

As far as evidence implicating Raffaele Sollecito, the suspected murder weapon, that terrible knife with Knox's and Kercher's suspected DNA on it, was found in his apartment. Police theorize that Sollecito, a knife collector, would not have disposed of the murder weapon because it would have held some special meaning for him. Fragments of his hand and fingerprints were found at the murder scene and his DNA was allegedly found on the victim's bra clasp, one that had been ripped from her bra at the time of her murder. But wait; the clasp had been somehow left for weeks at the murder scene by Italian CSI police, eventually retrieved by them and held as evidence. If this item had been moved and kicked around the room, couldn't DNA from Sollecito, someone who had legitimate access to the apartment due to his relationship with Knox, along with that of Knox and Guede, have somehow found its way onto the clasp? And what of other unidentified DNA, does this play any actual role in the investigaton? All actual physical evidence; true, but evidence that may have nothing to do with the victim's assault and murder.

Then there were other footprints in blood that some investigators believe matched the shoes he wore the night of the murder, but were these really Sollecito's or were they Rudy's? His many versions of his activities the night Kercher was murdered have, like those of Knox, been found lacking by investigators. And while he once provided an alibi for Knox for the night of the murder, he later indicated he could not account for her whereabouts for the entire night, especially for the critical period surrounding Meredith's believed time of death.

Lovers separated by a Murder

Rafaelle and Amanda initially supported each other, but as their relationship was so new at the time of the murder, and they have been housed in separate prison facilities since their arrest shortly after the crime, they have grown emotionally estranged and have gradually offered each other up as possibly having been involved in the crime. The short and steamy love affair, it appeared, was over. Knox, for example, has suggested that Sollecito could have arisen from the bed they shared, obtained the murder weapon from his kitchen and crept off in the night to kill Kercher, reason/motive unknown. She further suggested he could have later returned to his apartment, placed the murder weapon in her sleeping hand to get the DNA transfer, then put the knife with its incriminating physical evidence that would link his girlfriend to the crime back in the kitchen, and then crawled back in bed with her to complete both his crime and his implication of Knox. Meanwhile Sollecito's statements that he was with Amanda, or talking to his father on the telephone, or working alone on the computer in his apartment at the time of Meredith's death have not been supported by investigation and his claim that he had never met Rudy has been disputed by eye witnesses who suggest the contrary.

The Crime Scene Investigation

Videos shot by the Italian CSI show evidence being handled in what some suggest to be a haphazard manner, with, for example, multiple pieces of evidence apparently being handled by an investigator who failed to change gloves when he handled a new piece of evidence, thereby providing the possibility of cross contamination of evidence. Other investigators are seen without head covers, perhaps contributing to unidentified hair, fiber and DNA evidence found at the crime scene, or wiping up bloody footprints discovered at the scene of the murder. Meanwhile another video shows a police investigator kicking in a glass door at a residence located on the first floor of the residence located under the crime scene. This was not the actual murder scene, but obviously there should have been other less intrusive and less damaging ways to gain entry into that location, with police indicating exergent circumstances that required this action. Police also seized the hard drives from computers belonging to the victim, Amanda and Raffaele and in their attempt to examine the contents of the hard drives. Unfortunately computer forensic experts hooked them up in the wrong manner, therefore frying the circuit boards and rendering the drives unreadable.

The prosecutor, in his attempt to validate his bizarre theory concerning the motive that would have allowed all three suspects to participate in the torture and murder of Kercher, continues to suggest Meredith was the victim of a ritual crime, perhaps one celebrated in conjunction with the night of Halloween. Other theories have surfaced that have embraced other forms of ritualistic behavior, to include suggestions that Meredith's murder had been ordered by an esoteric Masonic sect, the Order of the Red Rose, one that some may believe both Amanda and Meredith belonged to.

Conclusion

Prosecutor Mignini (see his background in "The Monster of Florence" serial killer case) bases his case on linking physical evidence and the many different and conflicting stories told by the three suspects. He also will include evidence of their strange behavior immediately after the murder. The defense will find the prosecution's indicated motive for murder to be absurd, and they have their own experts who will try to shoot holes in the believed damning physical evidence that appears to link the two suspects left standing with the crime scene and with Meredith's murder. Who do you believe and, more importantly, who will the judges and jury believe next month?

This is a confused and contradictory case that becomes even more baffling when you consider the suspects, the crime scene and the multiple motives that have been offered up for Kercher's murder. The simplest way to explain Meredith's death would be that an unknown burglar (and her eventually assailant and killer), in this case Rudy Guede, illegally entered her apartment in an attempt to steal, and was confronted by the victim. He then, like other burglar/rapists before him in similar situations, took advantage of the opportunity to assault his victim, using a knife he was known to carry to force her compliance with his physical demands and then used the same knife to silence the only living witness against him. But were this true, why the presence of physical evidence that appears to link the two young lovers, Knox and Sollecito, to the crime scene and to the murder victim? The investigators, for their part, find evidence of three different assailants at the crime scene and do not believe that all of the injuries sustained by the victim could have been the result of only one assailant.

And why, we ask, did the two remaining suspects tell so many varying and conflicting stories about their activities the night of and day after the murder? Wouldn't the truth have set them free? Both freely admit using drugs to excess that fateful night. Could they have been in such a drug-fueled fog that they lost the ability to tell the difference between reality and fantasy, and could police have planted information in their minds, like their allegedly mishandling of crime scene evidence, in a manner that made the two suspects unable to tell the difference between what they did and what the police said they did? Or are the prosecutor and the police right, in this case dead right, in everything they suggest? Was Kercher was killed in some terrible ritual that found its roots in violent comics, all Hollow's eve, drug-induced activity and the mis-belief that somehow the victim may have even wanted to participate until someone, someone holding a knife, went too far and cut too deep, taking the life of a otherwise innocent victim who had no reason to die that terrible all Saints' Day?

Many of these questions were considered via the Dateline special, with the finding of guilt and innocence left to the Italian trial due to take place in less than one month. If found guilty by the two judge, four citizen panel, both suspects, like Rudy, could spend the next 20-30 years in an Italian jail. If found not guilty, however, both, as Amanda wrote in her diary, will have something to remember for the rest of their lives. Supporters and detractors line up on both sides of the Internet and the Atlantic Ocean, believing they have sorted out the truth in this brutal crime. No one wants a rusl to judgement, but (most) everyone wants the truth. Meanwhile the friends and family of Meredith Kercher can only hope for justice and that those responsible for her brutal and senseless death will finally be held responsible. Little consolation, though, for their future life without her; one, of course, that the families of Amanda and Raffaele must also face in their own way.

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{"commentId":4297230,"authorDomain":"TheEtruscan"}

Luckily for me I can read Italian and both Corriere della Sera and La Stampa keep me well informed. There is no doubt in my mind that angel-faced Amanda Knox is a killer or a co-killer. But painting Italian prosecutors as bumbling idiots is getting old.

Personally I think it is another one of your pieces a la Natalee Holloway. Do you fall for young women in trouble? 

{"commentId":4297230,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"TheEtruscan"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Dec 4, 2008 8:54 PM EST
{"commentId":4325290,"authorDomain":"rl-761378"}

I too have read the accounts of the murder in the Corriere, La Stampa, and La Repubblica, from the beginning. But over the course of the year I now can see how they all slanted the case against Amanda by coming to conclusions based on the "leaked" original confession, later denied, by Amanda, and based on misleading information, like "Foxy Lady," as if that name summed up her character as a deceptive woman. She got the name when she was 8 years old, playing soccer. If tv and press add a slant, of course people will start to buy it. The Dataline report has helped present a more balanced view. Still, they do not provide complete information. The knife with Amanda's DNA and a speck of Meredith's DNA: is it blood DNA? or is it just surface skin DNA? And according to reports, that speck is POSSIBLE DNA for Meredith, and equally (50-50) DNA of anybody else. When you go into detail, the picture looks far less damning for Amanda. Frankly, I do not know if she is innocent or guilty: none of us does. But what are the odds that she is being treated like Mr. and Mrs. Benet of Colorado, whom police for years believed were guilty, but who recently were proved entirely innocent by DNA evidence. The Italians love appearance, showmanship, and they love to intrepret gestures and appearances as evidence. We should be careful not to make the mistake of seeing something spectacular where possibly there is something just straightforward. If Rudy's DNA was "all over Meredith's body," and if he has admitted to having had sex and having been in her bedroom that evening--without confessing to having killed her--why would it be necessarily true that others "joined in"? The Italian prosecutors may not be bumbling, but the main DA is given to very speculative ideas about what might have happened. There are many other less spectacular hypotheses that also make sense.

{"commentId":4325290,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"rl-761378"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 5:13 PM EST
{"commentId":6074118,"authorDomain":"starduststorm"}

One piece of evidence not mentioned is that both suspects cell phones were off & showed no activity during the span of time in which murder had taken place - as well as a little before and after - unusual because it was a depature from the norm-there were no times prior when this pattern was observed.

This evidence is one of the most important pieces as well as damning because it appears to be irrefutable and would render the suspects whereabouts during murder time unknown...

{"commentId":6074118,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"starduststorm"}
  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:07 AM EDT
{"commentId":6074571,"authorDomain":"starduststorm"}

After perusing some of the websites below I have found a few to be very slanted in a certain direction-including a fictitious but probable account of the 'killer' in which killer was described as he(?).

A good one is truejustice.org

just because a website uses a particular name does not mean it is in actuality what it appears to be...

{"commentId":6074571,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"starduststorm"}
  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:42 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":4298797,"authorDomain":"caroaber"}

Ms. Knox's youthful good looks are not the issue. What is at stake is establishing her guilt or innocence in this barbaric attack. The U.S. coverage of this case has been slanted. Knox is not a "hometown hero," but a murder suspect. NBC News has again given a murder case tabloid treatment. It is improper for the American media to manipulate viewers and readers into believing that "one of our own" is being held unjustly. The Italian criminal justice system also aims to punish the culpable, same as ours does. Ms. Knox has emerged as a suspect and remains under a cloud of suspicion for good reasons.

Let's wait for a verdict.

{"commentId":4298797,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"caroaber"}
    Reply#2 - Fri Dec 5, 2008 12:17 AM EST
    {"commentId":4299370,"authorDomain":"hel"}

    For anyone who is interested in the facts behind the media spin, and who cares to learn more about the victim of this terrible murder - Meredith Kercher - there is an excellent discussion board

    http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org

    as well as an interesting blog

    truejustice.org

    These online resources are not for profit. Anyone can read and/or participate and people from around the world do. They have followed this case since last November, and are in no way related to Amanda Knox. Nor are they her friends

    {"commentId":4299370,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"hel"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#3 - Fri Dec 5, 2008 2:25 AM EST
    {"commentId":4305227,"authorDomain":"drranjack"}

    Rudy confessed?  I have read nowhere that Rudy confessed to any involvement in the murder.  In fact, his lawyer hoped to have him completely exonerated in his trial.  There has been no confession from Rudy and there is plenty of evidence pointing towards more than one person being involved in the murder along with attempts to clean and alter the murder scene to make it appear that a burglary had taken place.  Rudy has consistently pointed towards the involvement of others and wound up identifying Sollecito and Knox as being at Meredith's home at the time of the murder.  It doesn't take a seasoned professional to determine that all three of these kids have something to hide.  It comes down to this:  Kids on drugs getting themselves into serious trouble.  It happens all too often.

    {"commentId":4305227,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"drranjack"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Fri Dec 5, 2008 11:23 AM EST
    {"commentId":4317508,"authorDomain":"dbmills"}

    "It comes down to this: Kids on drugs getting themselves into serious trouble. It happens all too often"

    Based on the drug evidence and her multiple story changes, it appears her mind was so adled she does not really know what happened that night. In that case, you fall back on the forensic evidence.

    {"commentId":4317508,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"dbmills"}
    • 1 vote
    #4.1 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 12:32 AM EST
    {"commentId":11054722,"authorDomain":"jackster1212"}

    Have you ever done drugs? "Good heavens, no!" Based on the drug evidence, the girl smoked pot. Or, depending on what you read, hash (which is more common that pot in Europe).

    Other than in 1950s scare films, smoking either doesn't make you do violent, drug "adled" things... beyond attacking the cracker drawer or stuffing your face with ice cream. Stoned people rarely get into fights, want to drive, or do much of anything except vege out on a sofa or laugh at not-so-funny, mundane things.

    What they don't do, when drug-addled, is concoct elaborate, satanic sex-orgies or multi-layered alibis. As for falling back on the forensic evidence, let's do that... whoops, it's too late. Without any actual and irrefutable proof that she was there on the scene, without any eyewitnesses or confessions, she's just been convicted.

    Damn... and for a second there, we had the chance to do the right thing. Oh well. Maybe next time, right?

    {"commentId":11054722,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"jackster1212"}
    • 1 vote
    #4.2 - Sat Dec 5, 2009 8:08 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":4307969,"authorDomain":"maganong"}

    I hope that this program also devotes time to a discussion of the attempts on the part of Knox supporters in the US to interfere with the Italian legal system and discredit the prosecution and the investigtors.

    It is important to know that very early on the Knox/Mellas family hired a PR firm, ostensibly to deal with requests for interviews, but in fact to help mount a campaign intended to sway public opinion. Initially intended to counteract the tabloid image of Knox, this campaign has long since dispensed with ethics and truth. It has been effective in the US, where media coverage of this case has been mostly appalling and biased. One wonders what kind of perks the family has received in exchange for access.

    The lawyer representing the family of Meredith Kercher, the victim, recently stated that the Knox/Mellas family, via its intensive and aggressive media presence, has become part of the media circus it used to complain about. If only the Knox/Mellas family devoted as much time and effort to seeking justice for Meredith Kercher, the victim of this atrocious murder. If Amanda Knox is innocent of all connection with this heinous act, then their effort would kill two birds with one stone. Alas, they appear concerned only with their daughter, whom they have tried to turn into a victim. It does not seem to be working, and in fact has mostly backfired.

    Let's hope that justice prevails soon for Meredith Kercher. The TJMK website (link above) is an excellent source of information on the case and also provides critical analysis of the media coverage it has generated. 

    {"commentId":4307969,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"maganong"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Fri Dec 5, 2008 2:00 PM EST
    {"commentId":4319403,"authorDomain":"mmh101"}

    Another excellent discussion board discussing the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher and the evidence to date is called: All of Us - for Meredith Kercher.

    This is also a not-for-profit board. Members are world wide -  several reside in Italy - and have been involved in discussing the case from the beginning days in November 2007. 

    Original member-created translations from the Italian are often available as the stories come out. These have been very helpful in letting viewers read and compare the media from both sides of the Atlantic. Additionally, there are numerous links to media presentations and other materials germane to the case. 

    Anyone can read and join the ongoing discussion in a friendly and respectful atmosphere that seeks justice for Meredith Kercher. 

    {"commentId":4319403,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"mmh101"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 6:04 AM EST
    {"commentId":11054749,"authorDomain":"jackster1212"}

    I seek justice for Meredith Kercher. I also seek freedom for Amanda Knox and Rafaelle S., because I believe the two things co-exist. The accused pair didn't do it.

    {"commentId":11054749,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"jackster1212"}
      #6.1 - Sat Dec 5, 2009 8:11 PM EST
      Reply
      {"commentId":4319417,"authorDomain":"mmh101"}

      The link to the message board above is:

      {"commentId":4319417,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"mmh101"}
        Reply#7 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 6:08 AM EST
        {"commentId":4319588,"authorDomain":"mmh101"}

        (sorry about the confusion; I am link challenged!)

        {"commentId":4319588,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"mmh101"}
          Reply#8 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 7:08 AM EST
          {"commentId":4319677,"authorDomain":"mmh101"}

          {"commentId":4319677,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"mmh101"}
            Reply#9 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 7:26 AM EST
            {"commentId":4322347,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}

            As indicated, this case has been challenged by the family, friends and supporters of Knox, some who have spoken to me to provide their version of what happened and why Amanda is innocent.  As seen on the Dateline special, Knox's family states what they believe as truth, although, of course, they were not there.  I have received a ton of e-mail this past year with criticism for either supporting Knox or trying to convict her.  Neither, of course, is true.  Like many of you, I only want to see justice done for Meredith and want those responsible for her death held responsible the part they played in her death.  Evidence is not just black and white.  There is always room for its interpretation, and that is what the court is for.  Experts will line up on both sides of the case trying to prove their point, really trying to win.   For those of you who have followed every report on this case, please know that the media, law enforcement, and the family, friends and supporters all have a dog in this fight.  We can only hope that the ultimate truth somehow comes out in this case and that justice, while blind, will not be stupid or swayed by anything other than the evidence.

            {"commentId":4322347,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
            • 1 vote
            Reply#10 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 12:23 PM EST
            {"commentId":4322821,"authorDomain":"mmh101"}

            Thanks Clint for airing the matter again. It IS important to view all sides, and it's often difficult to see beyond the packaging. However, for any of us to come to an understanding of the complexities of the case, it is necessary.

            I attempt to submit, one last time, the link to the All of Us for Meredith Kercher site. Thanks.

            allofus.invisionplus.net

            {"commentId":4322821,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"mmh101"}
              Reply#11 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 1:09 PM EST
              {"commentId":4322976,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}

              Amy,

              Thanks.  If there's any side, other than the truth, that we should all be on, it's the side of the victim.  As a profiler, I knew that we were the last chance for the victim to speak, one we took very seriously...

              Best,

              {"commentId":4322976,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
              • 3 votes
              Reply#12 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 1:23 PM EST
              {"commentId":4324335,"authorDomain":"hel"}

              Hi Clint,

              You have to admit that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito simultaneously turning off their mobile phones shortly before Meredith was murdered and then turning them on again at 5.32 am when they both claimed to be sleeping is suspicious.

              The fact that Amanda and Raffaele gave multiple alibis and lied deliberately and repeatedly to the police is highly incriminating. The only plausible explanation for them lying has to be that they were involved in Meredith's murder.

              I'm sure you find it difficult to believe that Amanda and Raffaele conveninetly couldn't remember most of what happened on the night of the murder because they suffered cannabis-induced amnesia. Amanda and Raffaele have spun other ridiculous yarns like Raffaele accidentally pricking Meredith's hand whilst cooking even though she had never been to his apartment and Amanda's amnesia magically disappearing when she was visited by a nun and her bathmat shuffle.

              Amanda and Raffaele knew precise details about Meredith's body which they could only have known if they had been present when Meredith was murdered. Amanda herself admitted she was present when Meredith was murdered in her handwritten note to the police on 6 November.

              The three different sized bloody footprints at the crime scene completely debunk the myth that Meredith was murdered by a lone wolf.

              Who do you think cleaned up the trail of bloody footprints leading out of Meredith's bedroom, along the corridor and up to the blue bathmat? The mop used to clean the crime scene must have been absolutely drenched with blood. It's a bit of coincidence that Amanda took the bucket and mop from the cottage to Raffaele's apartment, isn't it?

              Renato Biondo has provided independent confirmation that the forensic investigation was carried out correctly, following international protocol, and that the findings are accurate and reliable. Patrizia Stefanoni categorically excluded the possibility of contamination and Judge Paolo Micheli agreed with her.

              There are 13 separate pieces of forensic evidence that link Amanda and Raffaele to the crime, including Amanda's DNA on the handle of the knife found at Raffaele's apartment and Meredith's DNA on the blade, and Amanda's bare footprints set in Meredith's blood and Raffaele's DNA on Meredith's bloodied and cut bra.

              As a fomer criminal profiler, Amanda's inappropriate and strange behaviour in the police station must have rung alarm bells in your head: kissing and caressing Raffaele, laughing and joking with him whilst the rest of Meredith's friends were crying and comforting each other, and then hitting herself violently on the head before she had her fingerprints taken. One of Meredith's friends, Amy Frost, remarked that Amanda was "crazy" after witnessing her behaviour and it's hard to disagree with that assessment.

              All the judges who have been involved in the case: Judge Claudia Matteini, the judges at the Italian Supreme Court, Judge Massimo Riccarelli, and Judge Paolo Micheli all thought there were serious indications of Amanda Knox's and Raffaele Sollecito's guilt and refused to grant them bail on the grounds that they are mentally unstable, dangerous and could reoffend.

              In the light of the judges' decisions so far and the forensic evidence which was independently confirmed as accurate and reliable, it looks extremely unlikely that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito will be found not guilty.

               

               

               

              {"commentId":4324335,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"hel"}
              • 2 votes
              Reply#13 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 3:29 PM EST
              {"commentId":4326291,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}

              Harry,

              I accept all that you say and believe that there is a difficult road ahead for the two remaining suspects.  I too believe that the forensic evidence and, in my case, especially the indicated behavior of the two suspects was highly telling.  Were you and I to be working the case with the authorities, I'm sure we'd suggest that it appeared they had their co-conspirators, short of significant physical evidence to the contrary.  I simply don't want to paint the two remaining suspects too deep into the corner by my words and tv appearances.  Take TV for example.  NBC Dateline probably shot 50 or more hours for the first show last year and many for the current show, only 47 minutes of which is ever seen on TV.  My latest interview was about 4 hours, only a few minutes of which made it on TV, so there are a lot of believed facts and conclusions that never made the show.

              I know that I'm not the fact finder in this case and I know how sensitive this case has been in the UK, Italy, and the US.  Most people have lined up on one side or the other, believing beyond belief of the absolute guilt or innocence of the three suspects.  I simply choose to wait until the information from the media actually becomes the true facts in the trial.

              Thanks for your email!

              {"commentId":4326291,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
              • 2 votes
              #13.1 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 7:09 PM EST
              Reply
              {"commentId":4325906,"authorDomain":"TheEtruscan"}

              I watched the NBC's Dateline broadcast and I was amazed that Sollecito's side of the story was not covered at all.

              It also transpired that Amanda Knox is a very shallow person.

              The clean-up job alone is sufficient to incrimate both of them. We should all be thankful that Italy being a civilized country does not have the Death Penalty.

              After the trial and conviction, Amanda Knox can be sent back to the great and perfect United States of America in some kind of exchange or favor by the Italian authorities thereby relieving the Italian taxpayers of her upkeep. Good riddance. 

              {"commentId":4325906,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"TheEtruscan"}
                Reply#14 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 6:22 PM EST
                {"commentId":4326335,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}

                Tarchon,

                As a show with mainly an American audience, I must believe that the show tried to show Amanda's story due to the significant interest in this case in this country.  I know there is a similar level of interest in the UK and Italy also, as demonstrated by the extensive media coverage that has resulted from this terrible crime.  Although you may say it tongue in cheek, an exchange program for internationals doing time in foreign prisons is a good idea for some.  In the case of Sollecito, and as indicated in my article, his story closely mimics that of Amanda, another reason, perhaps, for how the story was set out.  There needs to be final justice, for all, in this case - just like for O.J., but that's another story for another time.

                Thanks!

                {"commentId":4326335,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
                  #14.1 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 7:15 PM EST
                  {"commentId":4326780,"authorDomain":"caroaber"}

                  My impression, and I live on the East Coast, is that there is not "significant interest" in this case in the U.S.

                  However, NBC and other media are positioning this as the next big thing. Sometimes interest is manufactured. A stone rolls down the hill and becomes an avalanche.

                  But the behavior, affect, bungled alibis and forensic evidence against Ms. Knox add up to doubt about her character. The MSM must resist the temptation to champion the cause of an American who, although young and good on paper, may be deeply twisted and troubled.

                  {"commentId":4326780,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"caroaber"}
                    #14.2 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 8:07 PM EST
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":4327121,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}

                    caroaber,

                    Know that there is no one position that has been adopted, to my knowledge, by nbc news.  "Significant interest" is many times measured by the media stories concerning a case.  After all, we are, unfortunately, spoon fed our news by the media, especially cable that needs to run for 24/7.  Whether you or I am interested is not the case.  The "average" American knows that this could be them, their sister, friend, child or grandchild.  That, like the case of Natalee Holloway, has resulted in many adopting Amanda, or Meredith, as their own.  The only cause being championed is the truth.

                    {"commentId":4327121,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#15 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 8:48 PM EST
                    {"commentId":4329257,"authorDomain":"indie56"}

                    Clint, 

                    Setting aside this case, because I know you need to be somewhat objective as a member of the media, I would like your thoughts IN GENERAL about the notion, "good, well-educated, kind, nice, wouldn't hurt a flea, do anything for you" kids could not commit a crime such as Meredith's murder.

                    With your experience as a criminal profiler, I wish you could share some thoughts on why this is not necessarily so and if you believe in the theory that sometimes people in a group setting may do things they may not necessarily do as an individual.  

                    I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have on these issues.  Thanks.  I have always admired your hard work and honest opinions on past cases.   

                    {"commentId":4329257,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"indie56"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#16 - Sun Dec 7, 2008 1:48 AM EST
                    {"commentId":4329919,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}

                    Indie,

                    I guess we can go back to the time of Christ and the crowd picking up the chant to crucify Him.  Your statement has been my experience when one, two, three, or a group of people are together it is many times easier to go with the crowd than to be the lone person to say "No, this is wrong!"

                    I have done a number of psychological autopsies on killer after the fact.  As you state, many people will tell you how goo, kind, well educated, gentle, etc., they are when in reality they just took a human life in some terrible manner.  We have seen mothers (and fathers) kill their young or unborn children, husbands kill their wives (love, honor and obey...), wives of pastors shotgun their husbands to death, and on and on.  For most, the act of violence, the act of murder was the first they had committed.  While I do not believe that people just snap and commit murder (in the case of workplace violence), i.e., there are always behavioral clues to the forthcoming aberrant behavior, we, as society, disregard or miss these signs that pass without notice until murder takes place.  There is usually a combination of factors that allow participation in group murder, perhaps substance abuse, perhaps a special relationship with one or more of the other defendants, perhaps something going on in their life that is new or challenging, or maybe a bad hair day...

                    In my case I learned the hard way that good kids, and good people in general can commit terrible crimes - take the parents who molest their own children for example. 

                    My bottom line is that anyone who say they can absolutely predict human behavior is smoking cigarettes without labels.  As humans, we are capable of infinite good and infinite evil.  We have the option of choice and we can make very bad choices for which there is no "take back" in life.  We are then left to deal with something we said or did in a few moments for which we are accountable for the rest of our life.  Take Dan Quayle, our 41st VP, and his historic spelling of "potatoe" as a final example.  Then consider the Scott Petersons and Drew Petersons and the Lizzie Bordens of this world.

                    Be Safe!

                    {"commentId":4329919,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
                    • 2 votes
                    #16.1 - Sun Dec 7, 2008 7:55 AM EST
                    Reply
                    {"commentId":4333057,"authorDomain":"indie56"}

                    Thanks Clint for sharing your experience and expertise on criminal behavior.  

                    I totally agree with your belief that for the most part people do not just snap and that along the way there were "signs".  As parents we need to take our parenting job seriously and pay attention to our children.  It is so easy to get immersed in one's own life, job etc. and not pay attention to our kids.  ACTIVE LISTENING is one of the most useful tools a parent can use to monitor their child's physical and psychological well-being.  Signs of problems are only evident if one is communicating and relating with them on a daily basis.  I also am a firm believer in professional help.  I do not believe that teens miraculously grow out of  depression, anger problems, feelings of inadequacy or acting out episodes.  They often need help and it can be a life-changing intervention.  

                    Thanks again and I wanted to tell you that I made my husband watch this Dateline.  He is NOT a crime buff like me but he knows how closely I have been following the case so he like a dutiful husband watched the whole show.   All I can say is I don't think our soon to be graduating from high school daughter will be happy with his pronouncement, "NO WAY will she be going off to study abroad!"  Oh dear it is hard to balance safety and allowing our children some freedom isn't it?   

                    {"commentId":4333057,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"indie56"}
                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#17 - Sun Dec 7, 2008 3:03 PM EST
                    {"commentId":4333764,"authorDomain":"viablevisions"}

                    Dear Clint,

                    I would be interested in your thoughts about the recent witnesses that have come forward.  Those proclaiming Knox's innocence are quick to dismiss these witnesses (and the journalists who supposedly found some of them), citing that they will be unreliable.  Some say the witnesses simply didn't come forward because they weren't sure they had important information to offer, but have now realized they indeed do have something to add.  How often do witnesses come forward a year after the crime, and are their memories of what they saw deemed reliable?  Thanks.

                    {"commentId":4333764,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"viablevisions"}
                      Reply#18 - Sun Dec 7, 2008 4:14 PM EST
                      {"commentId":4374259,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}

                      Tara,

                      Although a different situation, women are coming forward well after the fact to tell investigators that they had been the victim of Michael Mele, the suspect in the disappearance of Laura Garza.  Others witnesses that have come forward in the case of Amanda Knox, those supporting both the defense and the prosecution, have come forward a year afterwards.  I always question eye witnesses to begin with, especially when they are trying to recall a particular event that took place months ago. How do we know that #1, they are honest and not looking for fame, money, or other considerations, #2, that they are less than honest, having made a decision that they would influence the outcome of a case they had no knowledge of, or #3, they saw something, perhaps Amanda or the other suspects, but it was a day or a week before the death of Kercher.  If such eye witnesses tend to support the physical evidence, no matter which way the evidence falls, then I'd be more attentive to such testimony that comes up so many months later.  Such testimony must be considered in the totality of the investigation and the judges and jury may ultimately be the decider of what truth, if any, such witnesses bring to the trial.  I've had witnesses absolutely swear something to me and they were wrong.  DNA has released more people than it has convicted, but everything is potential evidence until we decide its relevance.

                      Be Safe!

                      {"commentId":4374259,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
                      • 1 vote
                      #18.1 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:48 PM EST
                      Reply
                      {"commentId":4359368,"authorDomain":"Terry5262"}

                      Let Her Be Free!

                      {"commentId":4359368,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"Terry5262"}
                        Reply#19 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 1:43 PM EST
                        Reply
                        {"commentId":4390959,"authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}

                        Let Her Be On The Silver Screen, Big, Big, Bigger Than Life!
                        Let All Revel In Her Beatific Facsimile So Admired By The Holy!
                        Let All See In 10 Meters By 70 Meters The Big - a ....

                        {"commentId":4390959,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}
                          Reply#20 - Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:05 PM EST
                          {"commentId":4391025,"authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}
                          biga_ididit_im_guilty!Deleted
                          {"commentId":4391042,"authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}
                          biga_ididit_im_guilty!Deleted
                          {"commentId":4391067,"authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}
                          biga_ididit_im_guilty!Deleted
                          {"commentId":4391111,"authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}
                          biga_ididit_im_guilty!Deleted
                          {"commentId":4391199,"authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}

                          a truly obtuse user interface msnbc...i'd rather skate in rockefeller center...jesus talk about jumping through hoops.

                          {"commentId":4391199,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"biga-ididit"}
                            Reply#25 - Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:20 PM EST
                            {"commentId":4437932,"authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}

                            For a logical and nuanced look at the Kercher case, here are two excellent blogs by reporters:

                            Perugia Shock


                            Italian Woman at the Table

                            {"commentId":4437932,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}
                              Reply#26 - Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:01 PM EST
                              {"commentId":4444377,"authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}

                              Clint, I liked your dignified and thorough look at the Meredith Kercher case. It was nice to see that you didn't make fun of Amanda Knox or call her by a nickname. You used your skills and intelligence to look at the evidence. Looking forward to your next report.

                              Also thank you for writing so often about crimes against women. In your experience do women get killed often because they happened to be home at the wrong time, during a break-in? Are they more or less likely to get killed in their homes or elsewhere? Where are women most in danger in other words. I have heard it's in the home.

                              {"commentId":4444377,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}
                                Reply#27 - Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:42 AM EST
                                {"commentId":4458567,"authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}

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                                Here reporters blog about the evidence, documents and eyewitness accounts in the Meredith Kercher case

                                 

                                Perugia Shock

                                 

                                Seattle Post-Intelligencer

                                 

                                Here are translations of Italian stories into English

                                Damiano33’s Weblog

                                {"commentId":4458567,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}
                                  Reply#28 - Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:53 AM EST
                                  {"commentId":4458598,"authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}

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                                  Here reporters blog about the evidence, documents and eyewitness accounts in the Meredith Kercher case

                                   

                                  Perugia Shock

                                   

                                  Seattle Post-Intelligencer

                                   

                                  Here are translations of Italian stories into English

                                  Damiano33’s Weblog

                                  {"commentId":4458598,"threadId":"434966","contentId":"2178143","authorDomain":"sallyfitzgerald"}
                                    Reply#29 - Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:02 AM EST
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